Announcement: What This Forum Is For

This is a reminder to everyone about what the Mac OS X forum is for: It is for threads that discuss the Mac OS X operating system itself.

The following (non-exhaustive) list describes sample topics that do NOT belong here:
-any threads about third-party applications
-any threads about Apple applications (including all the iApps!)
-any application requests ("I need an app that does X")
-any threads about peripherals and their drivers
-any threads about Mac OS 9 (OTHER than discussing the Classic mechanism)
-any threads about networking problems
-any threads about games

In summary:
-it is NOT a forum for discussion among Mac OS X users
-it is NOT a forum for discussion of apps that run on Mac OS X
-it is NOT a forum for discussion of apps that extend Mac OS X

Please post threads in the correct location; most of the above belong the Software and Peripherals forums. Any threads that do not belong here will be unceremoniously closed.

tooki

Re: Announcement: What This Forum Is For

I think you should rename the forum 'Operating system'. 'OSX' is just too generic and causes inappropriate postings.

Re: Re: Announcement: What This Forum Is For

Or call it 'Mac OS' - now that Apple has disbanded all the OS X specific advertising/box logos.

Re: Re: Re: Announcement: What This Forum Is For

There already is a detailed description of the forum that leaves no ambiguity:
Taken right from http://forums.macnn.com. What part of that is "too generic"?


This is not an all-inclusive forum for all versions of Mac OS -- it's for Mac OS X only. The Classic forum is for Mac OS 9 and earlier. Besides, I have no idea where you get this "disbanded all the...box logos." All the references to past and future versions of Mac OS X are spelled out just like that. That includes boxes and DVDs.

The point of this thread is not to invite discussion or attempt to rename the forum, but rather to remind people of the purpose of this forum, which has been exhaustively explained in multiple locations but seemingly falling on deaf (or lazy) ears.

tooki

Re: Re: Re: Re: Announcement: What This Forum Is For

I just thought I'd point out that you don't see that description at all unless you happen to go to http://forums.macnn.com. At home I use bookmarks, and while on the road I use the popup menu from the MacNN top page.

This is true -- I use bookmarks, too. But at minimum the first time one comes to the forums, you read the descriptions, right?

I have been meaning to suggest to the forum customizer to have the descriptions show up at the top of the thread listing of each forum, I'll do that.

That said, in the forums where people frequently post wrong, we have the stickies, but people routinely ignore them.

tooki

Re: Re: Re: Re: Announcement: What This Forum Is For

By 'too generic' I was trying to sugges that people see 'Mac OS X' and see this to mean 'anything which runs on my computer which is running Mac OS X'. I know this is not logical, given the existance of the software forum, but we have to allow for understandale human failings! My evidence is simply that lots of people post into this forum incorrectly. If the forum were renamed as 'Operating system (OS X)' it would perhaps solve this. Anyway, I've said my bit. I will leave this thread alone.

Yes, I realize that a lot of people see it that way, which is why I posted this clarification thread!

tooki

Is the Finder an application?

Just curious.

It's fairly common to say in software development that if you really design an interface right, people won't need to read the manual. Similarly, if this forum were named properly to begin with, then you wouldn't need descriptions and threads like this one.

Sali, tooki. Bisch wider im BAFH modus, gell? :D

I've noticed that many posters don't read (or possibly even notice) the forum topic guidelines, and this is due to the fact that there is a high level of ambiguity among forum members, by default, as to what constitutes the OS itself and what constitutes third party software. I think, possibly, that you are neither making it easier for yourself nor for the forum members by being stubborn about what constitutes the OS and refusing to make it clearer in the forum topic title.

I've noticed that the majority of members see certain software applications and subjects as part of the OS, even though they aren't strictly that. Apple itself doesn't make the subject any clearer in that Apple refers in its install documentation to the iApps as part of the OS. On newer Macs, with two DVD's containing the install software, a number of iApps are installed by default (iPhoto, iChat, Imovie etc) and others are not (iDVD, Garageband etc).

Also, refering to two threads, one just closed on Citrix metaframe clients and one open on X11 use, I beg to ask how an average or new user is supposed to know the difference. For example, although X11 is installed as an application on OSX, it would be hard to argue with new users coming from Linux or Unix, that X11 is not part of the OS functionality, but that many standard Mac members or Windows switchers would see it as as an application or utility, since that is where it is installed by default on OSX.

Similarly, I find it personally a bit ambiguous to call the Citrix client software (or Netware client for example), even if it is that, by default, rather than seeing it as something that belongs to and extends OSX functionality. By your strict definitions, such discussions should go where? in Software or in Networking? By rights, such software (networking clients) add both to OSX newtorking, OSX itself and can also be classified as software. I hope you see what I mean. There definitely is a high level of ambiguity in the forum guidelines.

I think the average user sees, from what I gather, that applications that have little to do with the OS itself (such as the iApps and most third party applications that do not add to the OS) go in the software forum, but that they are confused as to what constutes so called Unix functionality (command line only or X11 or what?), Networking (OSX built in networking only or third party extenders such as Citrix, Netware or Samba GUI clients?) and the OS itself (Is a third party preference panel part of software or is it part of the OS?)

To summarise, I don't mean to insult you, but I think you are making extra work for yourself and for the forum members by applying what many see as irrational and arbitrary guidleines to post topics. Perhaps it would be simply easier to "go with a flow" a little more?

maybe if someone posts in the wrong forum say 8 times or more we ban them.

Say the moderators get the stick out of their... :rolleyes:

Maybe we should all submit posts 20 days in advance so that moderators can review them to verify that the content is both suitable and informative?

Jesus. This place is getting more and more uptight about the lamest ****.

Come on! RED WARNING NOTICES? What next? a filter for posts based on word count? "I'm sorry you have not exceeded the required minimum word count. Your post of "+1" has not been submitted, please edit your post and elaborate where necessary."

Yeah, I'm just poking you with a stick.

I like the forum name because that way tooki can keep on posting these "reminders" about what bothers him. :cool:

Re: Announcement: What This Forum Is For

It's interesting to note that networking, in tooki's eyes, is not part of the OS itself.

This board is really becoming lame.

Most networking isn't OS specific. Why should we have to filter through all the people that can't get their Airport Express working? It has nothing to do with OS X.

Note, though, that virtually all OS X Server stuff is networking related and it IS in this forum.

I think the point was that while we appreciate all the effort the moderation staff puts into this place to make it nice for us, sometimes we would like you to just back off. Are there many people here (besides the staff) who are really that pissed off because a thread asking for help is in the 'wrong' forum, when the one who posted it really thought it was in the right spot?

In the grand scheme of things, who really cares about the 5 or so misposts a day when there are hundreds in the right spots? Just move on.

And another thing. To the vast majority of users, Airport Express is a part of OS X. They got it when the bought their Mac, set it up in OS X, and use it in OS X. So when it breaks, a part of the operating system broke. That may not make sense to me, or you, or many people here, but to most everyone else that is the way it works.

But you tell me. Are these announcements and revised forum descriptions actually working? To someone on the outside it doesn't seem like it, or there wouldn't be the constant need for these announcement threads.

I know that personally, I would rather "filter through" the few the few threads that really do not belong (but seem like they do) if a person can get help quicker and not be confused as to why their question was locked without explanation. I thought this place was to help users primarily, and I think that people would be better served if the staff collectively lightened up a bit.

This varies from situation to situation. I try not to lock threads unless they need to be locked. I try to move threads so that people can see where their topic should have been posted--without having to create a new topic.

The point isn't that one or two threads causes a problem--which is why they aren't just deleted. The point is that if EVERYONE posted their Airport Express problems in the Mac OS forum, then what's the point of the networking forum? There needs to be some sort of regulation to help people learn.

The general principle is to find the narrowest forum that fits your topic. Networking has its own forum, so even Mac OS and Mac OS X Server-based networking questions belong in Networking, though if someone asks "how do I configure static IPs on Mac OS X" we won't move it. If someone asks "How do I configure my AirPort base station", though, it definitely doesn't belong here.

tooki

That does not make sense. Networking is part and parcel of any modern OS. Networking hardware is not. I agree fully that you make it seem totally arbitrary whose posts get locked and whose don't. The current policy is a catastrophe.

Fixed�

The forum mods have gotten way out of hand.

So, where do we post questions about Mac OS X Server?

"Finder" last I checked was core to OS X ... can't buy it separate, won't see it elsewhere - Since "switching" this has been my biggest adjustment - is gleaning file details from Finder....

Newbie here, not elsewhere. I had a multi part question. Should I post 2, 3 separate posts in the "correct" place ... even though one is relevant to the other?

Chances are one place is where the core question lies. If, for example, the question is "I have a video capture card that I use on Final Cut Express on OS X 10.4.2, and it won't work", you'd just want to narrow it down: it's not discussing the OS itself, so that's not it. Now, does it work in apps other than FCE? No, so the card doesn't work at all? Look in Peripherals. Oh, it does work in other apps, just not FCE? The put it in Applications.

tooki

Maybe add a pull down menu for topics?

Maybe a pull down menu would help for new or not as active members? That way if someone had a question or problem or needed assistance with say, Airport Express for example, it would direct them to Networking,.etc. Hmm, I think I saw something to that effect when I first logged in and lost my password. Just a thought as I'm very infrequent to post but I may view it at work annomously.

brand new, am I in the right world?

My G3 tower with Panther 10.3.9 has lost its font variations. I am going nuts. Please help. I depend on various fonts for webpages and am in the midst of a large project on one site. Arial, Arial, how I see only Arial... Let me count the ways

garamond, where are you??

newbie with no geek-support

clueless

You have rendered me completely clueless... and that isn't far from my question. Where the heck do I get help with a fonts that simply disappeared?

love,
clueless in colorado
aka lisbeth

a little bit of confusion, but thanks as well

I have a question. And, maybe a suggestion. I've had difficulty figuring out where to post simple 'newbie" (translated - how do I even do the simplest tasks):lol:questions. Yes, I"m a switcher. And, I'm feeling very much like I've landed on a different planet without any bearings LOL

I did read the book and instructions that come with the computer, but for the regular things it's not much help (example, my question about an easier way to cut and paste than going all the way up to the menu bar every few seconds).
My suggestion would be to maybe have a section for very new Mac users.

I have learned a great deal already about some things, thank you for this forum with all the people willing to share their knowledge:)

Originally posted by tooki:
The general principle is to find the narrowest forum that fits your topic.

I thought we would be as inclusive and broad as ppossible in order to help our mac friends. What is the purpose of being 'narrow'?

Apps/versions that don't work with Leopard

Trying to find a thread where the topic is what applications/versions new Leopard users are finding no longer work after Leopard is installed - and/or, where users are verifying what versions of their apps *do* work with Leopard. For example, my upgraded version of Toast 7 stopped working,:confused: but I was able to "downgrade" to the original version of Toast 7 from disc and it does work in Leopard:thumbsup:. Is there one place for this kind of talk in the nnforums, or do I have to chase down every application separately?

Thanks!

Macsimized
Long time listener, first time caller

What's it for?

From reading all of the above, I suggest that if you have a question about Mac things, just ask. If you're in the wrong place, someone, as sure as eggs is eggs, will pretty soon tell you that.

So what DOES belong here? I am a new user, and it's just not clear to me!

If you need examples, examine the kinds of threads that are here over the past 60-90 days. It should give you a good sample. For the kinds of things that don't belong, you'll see a 'Moved' in front of threads when a thread was moved to a more appropriate forum.

Also, could you shave a line from your sig? Four lines of text are our maximum. Thanks.

Sorry about the signature, I figured It wouldn't let me enter over the maximum lines of text. I've fixed it now!

You say the forum is for Mac OS X only, but the actual forum description is "Discussion and support of all Mac operating systems". So, this may be misleading to many. I can see it clearly right on the forums page! (poke gif file goes here)

Thank you for the clarification mate! :)