Inkjet paper compatibility

I have an idea for a site that could be really useful to a lot of us: a database that lists compatibility between different inkjet printer models and different brands of inkjet paper.

For example:

Epson Photo Paper works perfectly in both my Epson SC740, and in my new Canon i850.

I have some 3M brand photo paper, and it works fine in the Epson, but not in the Canon -- the ink pools up in dense areas. I have some old Kodak photo paper that does the same thing, as well as some brand-new Burlington photo paper from Target.

I for one can't afford to buy a whole pack of every brand of paper to see if my printer likes it or not -- but the whole internet can.

Presumably we'd need to design some test page PDFs for people to print, since a lot of folks don't even know the defects we'd be looking for.

What do you people think?

(The inspiration for this -- other than the frustration with incompatible papers -- is xlr8yourmac.com's Drive Compatibility database.)

tooki

I agree that it's a good idea. I didn't know that there were incompatibilities between photo papers; as I usually just get the HP paper for my HP printer. Such a database could help people save some money though.

I found that kodak paper works well in just about everything.

Generic papers like Kodak will work in general purpose ink jets. For example it works fine on my HP 950. If you own a photo ink jet printer you'll need to use the manufacturer's paper. Kodak paper will work neither in my HP Photosmart 7150 printer nor my Canon i70. The inks and paper in photo printers are developed for stability and fade resistance when used in conjunction with the manufacturer's ink. Even if Epson paper will work in a Canon it is ill advised as long term stability and fade resistance are probably compromised. Anyway why would you want to use Epson paper? Canon's branded paper is much nicer with a gloss finish that's hard to beat!

(1. I have a stash of Epson paper from when I had an Epson as my primary printer.
2. Epson's paper [which is comparable to Canon's Photo Paper Plus] is cheaper than Canon's

3. I doubt the stability is affected.

4. It makes no difference whether the printer is a photo printer or not, it's all about the ink formulation, no matter what the printer's design is. My i850 is a 4-color inkjet and it still doesn't accept a lot of paper. An Epson 6-color dye inkjet will work with anything. Any printer with pigment inks needs different paper than printers with dye inks. The ink that my printer uses is the same ink as many older Canons that were decidedly not photo printers.

tooki)

In any case, this is not a thread about which papers work where. It's a thread to gauge interest in a website to document explicit tests of combinations of printers and papers (all kinds of paper, including non-photo papers).

tooki

I like the idea. Might encourage pricing competition among manufacturers if it was found that buying a different brand of paper gave you similar results.

I'd be interested in seeing the difference between the Epson paper and Kodak paper with my Epson SC760 and a test PDF.

I consider this absolutely necessary, and have a wealth of experience with both commercial inkjet papers and non-standard printing materials that I would be more than happy to contribute to such a venture.

sounds like fun

Not completely true about pigmented vs. dye based inks. HP current line of printers use both pigmented and dye base inks to print photographs. Their standard tri-color cartridge 57 uses pigmented cyan, magenta, and yellow inks. This cartridge works in conjunction with HP's photo cartridge 58 which uses pigmented colors light cyan, light magenta and a dye based black ink.

Are you sure it's not the other way around -- pigment black and dye colors?

(Dye black is notorious for not being dark enough.)

I should rephrase what I was thinking when i wrote the pigment-vs-dye-compatible paper thing: a paper has to be designed to work with one or both kinds of inks. Papers designed for dye only (e.g. most inkjet paper) is horrid with pigment inks (you get weird metallic sheens, variations in gloss, and other weirdness). Papers designed for pigment ink can have problems with the ink not drying soon enough. More recent manufacturer papers (Canon, Epson) seem to be designed to work well with both types of inks (especially since Epson now uses hybrid inks, the DuraBrite ink). One of Canon's new models, the i860, uses both dye and pigment black inks, for optimum text and photo printing.

Dyes need to sink into the surface of the paper for best results, while pigments need to sit at the surface to look their best.

tooki

The main problem I see is that most third-party inkjet paper is just not compatible with certain inks (like Canon's ubiquitous BCI-3e and BCI-6 series ink). I kinda get the impression that modern printer inks, regardless of whether they are dye or pigment based, or a hybrid, behave more like one another than they have in the past, but that the third-party paper technology has not advanced together with the inks.

tooki

Tooki,

From my experience, the paper incompatability problem also happens to OEM paper, not just 3rd party ones (I had a problem before where printing on a HP printer using original HP ink on a HP paper doesn't come out well).

I like your suggestion to setup such web site! At least I hope it would give me an answer such as "If I use HP xxx paper on an Epson paper (because it's cheaper than the Epson equivalent paper), would it come out OK?", without gambling to buy a 50-sheet pack to try it out...

Well I am knowledgable in php and mysql (basic) and would love to throw up a dynamic page were people can post there findings in this area.

Would people be interested in this?

if so how exactly would you like me to layout this information?

Just let me know...

-Brian

Re: Inkjet paper compatibility

I think that's a tremendously good, useful idea Tooki. The XLR8 database is invaluable to me.

Best of luck.

HP everyday photo paper works here with my epson sylus 760 amazingly well

Anyone know if Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper works with the Canon i950/i960?

I have a lot of Epson paper for my Stylus Photo 780, but am thinking of getting the Canon i960 and would hate to just dump all this paper.

Thanks!

Unofrtunately, the Epson will not work. Photo (as opposed to general purpose innkjet) printers of all brands are restricted to using only their own proprietary papers.

Huh? Then what is the purpose of this thread?
:confused:

I have found that Epson papers work just fine in my i850. It's possible (but unlikely) that the i960's inks (which are the BCI-6 series, vs the BCI-3e series in the i850) don't work, but since they use the same Canon papers, I assume it'll work fine.

tooki

Which specific papers do people use? I bought all Canon paper as a gauge for my i960. The Canon papers seem price competitive with stuff like Epson, etc. around here, but none of them are cheap.

I've purchased for testing:
PR-101 - Photo Paper Pro ($$$$$)
PP-101 - Photo Paper Glossy Plus ($$$$)
MP-101 - Matte Photo Paper ($$$)

See info here.

I figure the Matte will be good for printing colour throwaway maps and stuff, no?

Throwaway stuff I print on plane paper and it looks fine.

You can also get the kodak double sided stuff to save money, it looks pretty good.

Printer: HP cp1700
Uses: High-Quality Color & Black&White Prints, up to 13x19

Papers used w/ opinions on each

Epson Matte Heavyweight : Excellent, very velvety blacks, soft details

Epson Premium Semigloss : Not bad... a little shiny for me...

Kodak Premium Picture Paper : Fine, deep blacks

HP Premium Plus Matte : Does the job nicely, deep blacks, high per-sheet cost

HP Premium Plus Glossy : Same as above, minimal gloss

Polaroid Inkjet Photo Paper : Great, very shiny, great blacks, LONG dry time (20+ min)

---

Large Papers

Epson Enhanced Matte : Great! Less textured tahn the heavyweight matte, deep blacks but velvety.

Polaroid Inkjet Watercolor paper: great texture, excellent blacks

Epson Premium Glossy : Good, easily scratched finish

Epson Watercolor: Essentially perfect.

I just got a brand new Epson Stylus C84... using Epson Premium Photo Paper.. it wasn't that great. Printing the same image, with the same print settings, and plenty of ink... it appeared much better on HP's Premium Photo Paper.

Talk about odd... oh well.

So is this info compiled anywhere or is there a website someone is setting up? I am using a lot of ink testing various printing settings with various paper on my Epson Stylus 925. I would love comparisons in one place.

The website idea is great - any further development on it so far?

My Epson 2100 just arrived I've been mainly using Epson brand Photo Quality Inkjet paper on it with ok results (not photos - just layouts for presentation boards).

I've got a pack of HP Glossy Photo paper i'm going to try this pm.

Finally have some free time(if there is such a thing)

I am going to start developing the sit, i will keep everyone updated on it.

-Brian

Perhaps CNET

would do it?

..i use jessops' photo a4 satin on epsons and canon

..both seem ok to me , the canon's just much faster , quieter and more reliable

Maybe you can try it out in a store?

I have an i850 and only buy the Canon Photo Paper Pro or the Canon Glossy Photo Paper. I've tried some Kodak and HP papers, don't remember which specifically, and didn't like them as much as the Canon paper. I seem to find Canon's paper for less money around here anyway and this, along with cheaper ink, was a big reason why I bought the printer. Of course, nowadays I just print my photos at Walgreens...

I finally got some samples of Ilford's Galerie inkjet photo papers, and they are absolutely amazing on my i850.

They are without a doubt the first inkjet paper I've held that looks and feels like real photo paper. (Well, Canon Photo Paper Pro is, too. But they don't make it in anything but high gloss.) My favorite is the Smooth Pearl.

Sorry I neglected this for so long... any progress on making a site?

tooki

I don't know about a site, but the print forum users at dpreview have always praised Ilford paper. At one point they had compiled a large list of the best paper

I find that Kodak's Premium picture paper works great with my HP Photosmart 7550. HP's own Premium Plus Photo paper works great as well.

However, I purchased some of Canon's Photo Paper Plus in anticipation of my i9900 which will arrive on tuesday. That paper is terrible in my HP. the prints come out with scratches on the surface, and the colors are very muddy. I printed with the Kodak paper right after that thinking the printer was messed up, but it was the paper. AVOID this combination!

How do they compare to what you'd get from a local/online photo lab? I don't mind spending a bit more to print photos at home, but my i850 produces prints that are visibly inferior to what I get from a good lab, such as Adorama or even Shutterfly. I'd rather not take the leap to a newer, better photo printer because the ink costs rapidly approach ludicrous levels.

I've been using Canon's premium glossy photo paper to print out 8 x 10's taken with a 8 MP "prosumer" camera on two Canon Pixma IP5000s and the prints are at least as good, if not better than any photolab prints I have ever seen, and this is with no postprocessing in Photoshop (i.e., no unsharp mask, etc.).


Ishan

i have a canon i860 and when looking for a cheap 4x6 i found the staples brand premium photo paper works perfectly, though when i used the epson everyday the pictures looked horrible.

I picked up some of the Ilford Photo Printasia photo paper in the Pearl. The papers seems to hold the ink just as good as the Canon paper on my i860. I like the finish a lot better then glossy because it still has a little shine but also has a flat look to it.

The paper was $13 for 100 sheets at CompUSA.

Brad

I would volunteer to code a back-end, and also code a front-end. I'm lousy at web design, though. I'm also broke so I can't contribute towards a domain or hosting.

i have personally found that when using non oem inks, canon printers do NOT work well with kodak papers. noise is visible although it is not incredibly bad. colours are correct, it is just that the paper doesn't seem to want to absorb the ink.

kodak papers however on a photosmart145 give a nice and very photolike result.

epson and canon papers IMHO have always worked the best in ALL types of printers, i've been through all three large companies on this :)

non oem papers from china etc usually have high absorbency, give a nice flat and clean look but very very often dont have high contrast and often produce grey "blacks"

grea
t

Another source of good paper is www.redriverpaper.com - I've been using them for quite a while and have great images from them. They have a compatibility guide (what works with what), profiles, and have been great to deal with.

Their papers have worked great in:
Epson Stylus 875DC
Canon i960
Epson R1800 (new toy)

Prices are quite reasonable too.

Just curious, but why is almost everyone here focusing ONLY on paper made by the printer mfgr's ???

I've used 12 different printers over the years, from all major mfgr's, with just about every brand & type of paper... name brands, store brands, and no-name generic ones. They ALL work to some degree, some better than others, for specific tasks and types of printing.

However, having recently purchased a box of ILFORD Gallerie Classic Pearl, I have to say that it produces the most photolab-like prints I have ever seen to date. Excellent color rendition, with deep, rich tones and brilliant highlights. And that nice, heavy feel of real quality that you can only get with resin coated paper.

Yes. I know it is slightly more expensive than some other papers, but like the saying goes: If ya wanna PLAY, ya gotta PAY :D

I printed some photos at 720dpi, some at 1440dpi, & others at 2880dpi, using an Epson 1280photo, on 13" x 19" paper. I got excellent results with all 3 settings.

So, don't limit your trials only to certain lines of paper while exploring making your choices!

did you create the website? How are you going to fund it?
do you need funding?

Just thought i'd note that Kodak's "Premium Photo Paper" in high gloss does NOT work with my Epson C86.

Good to know!

I also have a new report to add:

Ilford's Printasia papers work perfectly in Canon printers using BCI-3e inks (such as my i850).
Ilford's Galerie "Smooth" series works equally well.
Ilford's Galerie "Classic" series does NOT work well with that ink.

tooki

I just tried Staples brand Photo Supreme high gloss in my Canon MP500. Using the settings for Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy I got excellent results. I could see differences between the Canon and the Staples paper (Canon seems to show deeper blacks, Staples whiter whites, etc.) but both were excellent.

I printed off two photos shot at our wedding by our photographer using a Canon EOS 20D (these are the Photoshop'd jpgs, not the original RAW image), one a high detail shot of my wife's dress, the other picture of the two of us. My wife could see the difference between both, but could not pick the one she thought was better. I picked the Canon as the better image in one shot and the Staples as the better in the other. So for the price difference I think I'll be sticking with the Staples paper for now. Also, if you buy any photo paper at Staples, they will give you a free 5 sheet sample pack of their paper to try. They also guarantee a refund for their paper if you aren't happy with it.

Hope this helps. Oh and if you are in the market for a photo printer, I am loving our new MP 500. Scans great, prints great (even built-in duplexing), it's fast and quiet. I got mine online at Microcenter for $179 including tax with in-store pickup.

The main problem you will have is defining/unifying the parameters of any test that is done. i.e How do you know if the paper is compatible? Get that sorted and it's a great idea.

Do HP, Epson et al, stipulate that their paper works best with their ink? If so z proving certain claims could be tricky. e.g. Epson claim 100 year fade resistance for some of their inks; is thagt dependant on the paper?

everyone here seems focused on the big name printer papers. That is a shame because there are some great 3rd party and even 4th party papers out there. I use a Continous Ink System on my Epson 1280 so ink is the least of my concerned but I will share a few observations of the past three years using this printer, HP and Canon. I print ALOT of pictures, my last trip to France was over 400 prints and I do quite a bit of "fine art" prints. I use cheap paper from inkjetart.com for the vast majority since I can buy it in 500 sheet packages at a very good price. The paper is 9mil thick and works with Epson ink or MIS ink (3rd party for the CIS). They offer a 10 mil which is very nice for the average give-away photos. Nice feel and even tonality without any bronzing.

Moab has an outstanding fine art paper that is a softly textured matt finish of REAL paper. Holds up well to inkjets without very much bleeding and the blacks stay pretty black so much as dye based ink can be. I use this for most of my fine art work.

Illford has some excellent papers as someone else mentioned, they were a favorite when I did real wet work and they still are one of my favorites for digital work. They make excellent portrait paper in either semi-matt or gloss. Look for the "pearl" finishes. The paper works very well with Epson ink and MIS but the HP ink has issues with it. I have not tried it with my Canon yet.

Kirkland (Costco) has some cheap paper that looks and feels EXACTLY like the Epson paper right next to it. The price is right for 100 sheets and the output is very clean and good enough for the average user who wants to share nice prints. High gloss and it works well with all three inks I use.

HP paper was very picky, it hated my MIS ink and was marginal with the Epson ink. The blacks would settle on top of the paper and not sink in like the other colours. But HP ink worked with most of the other papers pretty well.

Konica had some nice paper but i have not seen it in a long while. The stuff from Office Max and Staples own brand sucks, it did not feed well and felt very flimsy even though it was supposed to be 10 mil. I guess I could mike it but I'm lazy :)

The new HP 150 I have works with most papers but I tried the "National Geographic" paper and it has a great feel, just like heavy photo paper but the ink just puddled on top. Paper said it was for any printer but I think a pigment printer would be a better bet for it. It certainly did not like dye.

All dye papers are different due to the resin coating or not on the paper. The resin will open up to accept the dye and some are tuned to certain dyes which is why they are not the same. Inks are different and it is instructive to play with different inks. OEM is not always the best for the task at hand. Some printers have cleaner cartridges available and so you can switch Inks without too much trouble. CIS systems are worth the money if you do alot of printing AND if you buy a decent one. Some are just plain crap.

MikeS
hackamac.packetattack.com

Fuji paper DOES NOT WORK with Canon Pixma. Shame, cause I've got a stack for FAR (Free after Rebate). Fuji paper however works very nice in Epson PhotoRS320 (or whatever it is).

Kirkland (Costco) paper is nearly identical to Canon brand paper, so works great with Pixma printers. If in doubt, buy Kirkland! Kirkland paper works with most other printers as well.

Canon paper works well in Epson printers.

I use the matte paper for contact sheets in place of proofs for customers. Cheaper than making proofs, but nice enough to get a real feel for the picture.

Too expensive for throw away stuff though. Just plain bulk Staples brand for that.